Ep. 97 How to Bring a Product to Life

Megan Tobler (00:01.442)
Caroline, I was just talking about this right before we hit record, but I am so honored to be able to officially meet you today. I know that we've gone back and forth on LinkedIn for months now, so it's nice to officially put a voice to the name. So thank you so much for hopping on to the Self-Starter Podcast today.

Caroline (00:20.015)
Thank you so much for having me.

Megan Tobler (00:22.058)
Of course. Now to me, you're the ultimate definition of a self-starter. You are the founder of how to hire top talent. You're the host of the feminine founder podcast and you are the founder of chilled vino. And I'm a huge wine myself. So really excited about that one in particular, but I want to dive into all of these different facets of your life and your entrepreneurial journey. But first, I'm really curious just to learn a little bit more about you and really what led you to where you are today.

Caroline (00:56.591)
Sure, well thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. So my recruiting journey started in 2010. The economy was in full on recession mode and I was looking for a job as a candidate. So I applied to the agency. I wanted them to place me with one of their clients. And so I went into the agency and they said, why don't you come work for us?

And I thought everything would be great, rainbows and ponies, I would help companies find top talent for their company, for their organizations, and I would help people find jobs. But because the state of the economy.

It was the complete opposite experience. I was calling out business owners, HR professionals, hiring managers, wanting to talk about their recruiting and hiring needs. And they were hanging up on me, cussing me out left and right, because the economy was in complete shambles. They were having to lay off all their staff. But I made a temporary placement within my first 30 days and the rest is history. So 14 years later, fast forward, I worked in the agency side all across the United States and all types of industries, ending with recruiting C-suite roles for private equity companies, fortune-having companies, small and medium-sized businesses.

Megan Tobler (02:08.622)
Well, I have to say that's probably the ultimate form of flattery is when you're actually going in to be placed somewhere else and they're thinking, you know what, no, we're not gonna place you. We actually want you. So I think that's a really big compliment to yourself. But secondly, that was a really tough time to be able to enter into the workforce. So I think that says a lot about your work ethic and just your character in general and the fact that you were able to place someone in the first 30 days during a difficult time like that. That's a really big deal.

Caroline (02:39.735)
We just had to pivot. I mean, our strategy couldn't be direct hire placements. We had to go, people were willing. They still had work that had to get done. And so they were willing to commit to having a temporary come on for 30, 60, 90 days. And then at that point, the economy was in a better spot in 90 days. Then they would hire them full-time. But it was an easier entry way rather than just, hey, do you wanna hire this full-time person?

Megan Tobler (03:02.494)
Yeah, no, I can understand that. And I think that, especially in entrepreneurship as well, I think that's a really good lesson. It's that you constantly are having to pivot. So the fact that you're able to get that experience early on in your career, I'm sure that's really helped you in your own journey as well, and really being able to adapt as needed to be able to fit the needs of the ever evolving and changing environment. But you mentioned that you had been doing this for 14 years on the agency side.

When did you get that entrepreneurial love?

Caroline (03:36.867)
So when you work on the agency side as a recruiter, you work on commission and you are, you basically don't make any money unless you put people to work. And so it's kind of like a eat what you kill environment, which I loved, I thrived in. I mean, it's the same as running your own business. So there was an entrepreneurial element involved with it from the very beginning that I really enjoyed. About two and a half years ago, I launched, you know,

there was an additional two years of that project that was tacked onto that. And so my husband and I were vacationing. We were in Antigua and I ordered a glass of rose by the pool and they served it to me in a plastic cup and it was like $18 or something crazy. And

I drank it fast because I didn't want it to get warm and I was like there has to be a different way. So I went down a rabbit hole in the internet trying to find something that... we live in South Carolina. So it gets very hot here. I like being outdoors in the patio, by the beach, by the pool, but I don't like having to drink fast through... or through a plastic cup.

So I went down to rabbit hole, saw if there was anything out there on the market like it. I couldn't find anything that I liked. I ordered what would have been considered a competitor products. And then I got on Upwork and interviewed and hired an engineer to work with me. And it was a full two years from bringing the product as an idea to conception.

And then he helped me go out and find a manufacturer that would actually work with me and create the product, which is another year process. And then I was ready to launch it into the market and we were in full pandemic mode then. So I was paying triple shipping fees for all the things, trying to get inventory out, marketing. I mean, it was not the best time to be launching a new product, but I knew I had to get it out there to the world. I launched it in July.

Caroline (05:36.391)
And that's our busy season. We have seasonal, it's a seasonal product. So people like sales are high, you know, it is very busy. March to September, then we take a break and then we have Christmas, November and December, then another lull until March again.

Megan Tobler (05:54.398)
Well, that's the ultimate story right there is going on vacation, having a glass of wine by the pool and realizing that something could be done better and researching it and realizing, you know what, there's nothing, nothing's out there. So why don't I create it? And I think that, um, that's really, really big cause you could have just settled for the status quo, which is a plastic cup, but who wants to drink warm wine? Um, that's gross in my opinion.

But you mentioned earlier, I want to talk about a couple of different things. With the agency side of things and as a recruiter, you were on a commission-based structure. I come from the sales world, so the majority of my income was also based on commission. So I think when you are a recruiter or a sales professional, you really own your own book of business. So if you want to make unlimited amounts of money, then it's really up to you to be able to build your pipeline.

and control how much money you're making. So you mentioned that you basically owned your own business. So let's talk a little bit about that side of things because a lot of people that are listening are still in corporate and wanting dreams for more and really just understanding that they still have a skillset already that they can bring into them when they're starting their own business.

Caroline (07:14.923)
million percent and the skills are transferable. Like when I started in recruiting in 2010, I was on phone call after phone call after phone call, rejection, rejection. Just like fast forward in 2016, 2017 when I was shopping children around the manufacturers, I mean hundreds of manufacturers said no to me, but I had enough reps to flex the muscle that I could still withstand going forward with the idea of doing it and didn't get discouraged. I mean I had plenty of moments of discouragement,

You can translate your corporate America skills all day to doing a side hustle, to doing something on your own. You just have to really think about the framework of where you're using them and then transfer them to a different, whether it be a product or a service that you wanna sell or anything like that.

Megan Tobler (08:05.922)
Mm-hmm. And so how did you get the confidence to understand that you already had the skillsets needed to be able to really research something that you've never done before and bring it to life?

Caroline (08:19.491)
So I knew I had the skills to go out there to the market and hire who I needed. So I had the skills to write the job description. I knew exactly what I wanted somebody to do for me. And when I started interviewing, I knew how to interview and I was really gauging who I chose based off of their excitement level.

And I chose the person who was most excited about what I was doing and really believed in the product. And so that's how I used my transferable skills from being a recruiter to being an entrepreneur and going into the product department.

I needed his help with the design piece, the CAD drawings, all that in the manufacturing space that was all rare and known to me. And then I had to pivot from there too and learn a new skill in marketing because that's great you can put a product together, you can get a product out to the market, but it's not going to sell itself.

So then it's how are you gonna move it and how are you gonna scale it? And so I did have a huge learning curve when it came to the marketing piece, especially when it comes to social media and ads and SEO and building a website and all the things. But luckily at the time I still had my corporate job so I could afford to outsource some of those things I wasn't as good at.

Megan Tobler (09:36.234)
I think that's a really big thing that you just said there, that if you do have the funds to do so, to be able to outsource. I've had numerous conversations with dozens and dozens of entrepreneurs. And that is the biggest thing that they said is to be able to outsource early on because you can be an expert at some things, but you cannot be an expert at anything. And if you really want to accelerate your growth, sometimes it takes money to make money and to be able to...

invest in yourself and in the process is huge. So clearly you did that and you hired the engineer and you mentioned something that you wanted to hire someone based on the excitement level. Why was excitement really the biggest thing for you?

Caroline (10:18.231)
It's the exact same thing and principle that I use in recruiting. If I'm recruiting for a position and the person is not all in or not fully excited, then it's not going to work long term for my client and the company that I'm going to place them with. It's like dating. You have to have the chemistry there and either it's there or it's not and it's genuine or it's not.

And I could tell when I was interviewing these engineers, and granted, I had interviewed a lot of different people for a lot of different positions, but engineering wasn't my strongest suit. I still could tell by the way that they communicated with me via email, phone call, you know, and all the things whether or not it was gonna be a fit, and there was alignment there.

Megan Tobler (11:00.086)
And we're not talking about like exclamation points and happy faces here in emails. Like there's a certain level of professionalism that I'm sure that the engineers are taking into it. But traditionally engineers have a little bit of a different personality. So I'm sure that you're looking for different things with an engineer that you were looking in for someone that is potentially in the sales position where they're a little bit more outgoing. Is that safe to assume?

Caroline (11:23.451)
Yeah, yeah, the engineers, you're right. They're a different breed of their own, not good or bad. It just, they're very specific. They're very technical. They're very detail-oriented. So like the CELSI, you know, relational outgoing piece, you're not going to get from them in a conversation most of the time. But I was really digging into their backgrounds too. Like what types of products that they bring to life? How long did it take? You know, did they work in the wine space or were they

all, you know, those types of questions I was asking each of them and just kind of engaging. And I interviewed, I wrote a job ad, I sponsored it actually, and then I had probably hundreds of interview, engineers interview or apply to it, excuse me, but I only interviewed five and of the five I chose one.

Megan Tobler (12:15.438)
Okay, so you said earlier that you utilized upwork for this, correct? So how did you narrow it down from hundreds to five?

Caroline (12:25.035)
The same way I did when I recruited, I just would go through and I'm, I have a very high sense of urgency. Sometimes it's a negative, most of the times it's a positive. I like to do things fast. And so once I get an idea and I do it post a job, I wanted to get on the stick with interviewing and getting the process going. And so the applications that came in after day four, day five, I kind of didn't even consider anymore because they weren't as eager and interested opportunity than the others that applied really fast.

Megan Tobler (12:59.394)
Fair, and I think also when you say that you do things with a sense of urgency, you do things fast, I think that also allows you to not overthink things. And I think especially as women, we can get in our head and when we do that, then we don't take any action at all because we do start to overthink things and we start to question it. So I think that's a good thing that you do things fast.

Caroline (13:19.859)
One thing I've started to talk about more on my podcast too, as women, is we find the desire and the need to be perfect before we put anything out there. And we're not perfect. Nobody's perfect. No one has perfect life. I think imperfect is better. And it's just that's how it's going to be. And so when you do something new, like bring a product to life,

You don't know what you're doing. You've never done it before. So there's gonna be plenty of mistakes and imperfections that you're gonna make. You just have to be okay with it and pivot.

Megan Tobler (13:50.206)
I totally agree. That's really what self-starter was based on. It's really just taking the first step to get started, doing it messy because like I was mentioning, if you overthink it, you're never going to take any action. And I do think that messy action is better than no action at all. And it's getting you closer to that end goal, whatever that may be. And I know personally, if I never took any action, I would always be wondering what if. So I'd rather be like, yeah, I gave it a shot. It wasn't great, but I tried rather than
Shoot, I wish I did the dang thing.

Caroline (14:22.035)
And even if it's small things, like when I went on the website 99designs, they're the ones who designed my logo, Chilbino. So I did that. And then I got the domain. And then I got the business cards. And then I got, you know, the website built. And just each little step, I mean, it doesn't have to be as huge monumental 0 to 100. It can be small increments and each step gives you more confidence in what you're doing and that you're taking the right direction.

Megan Tobler (14:50.122)
Agreed. And again, you outsourced, like you had someone make your logo here. So it's, it's having that checklist of things and being able to kind of tick them off the box and knowing that you're not going to be able to do everything, but you can be in control at the same time, which is great. Also you, you had mentioned earlier, I kind of want to go back a little bit that you launched during the pandemic. That was a really hard time, but it was also potentially a great time because I think alcohol sales were going up.

So people were probably sitting at their homes, sitting outside because we really couldn't go anywhere. And it was, a lot of it was during the summer where they had, it was hot outside. So they probably needed a product like yours.

Caroline (15:34.295)
You're completely right. They alcohol sales were insane then. And the timing of me launching in July was huge too because people like you said, are out drinking wine by the pool, by the beach, still doing all the things. And so the overwhelm that I had of social media influencers wanting to use our product to use for user generated content was very high. The volume was very high at the time.

And I was so new, I wasn't at the point where I could pay them. So what I would do is I would just send them free product and exchange if they liked it and decided to post. And so that was, that helped with Buzz in the beginning. Um, and something that I didn't have to outsource to, which is nice.

Megan Tobler (16:16.942)
Well, that's a huge level or lesson in marketing that you're talking about. Like you had to learn marketing and user generated content is a form of marketing and relatively free. I mean, obviously you have the expense of the actual product but how did you reach out to the influencers to be able to get this in motion?

Caroline (16:37.811)
A lot of them I would follow on Instagram, the wine influencers that have lifestyle pages or just enjoy and like to focus on wine in general. That's part of like their image and what they do. And then a lot of them actually came to me because they were super excited about the product and they wanted to use it. And sometimes even, you know, if they wanted to do a photo shoot with their friends or whatnot within reason.

I would send two products, because who wants to have a glass of wine and take pictures of themselves together? They wanted to do like a duo shot with their bestie and do some cheers or something like that. And I was totally fine with that, helping get the word out.

Megan Tobler (17:18.061)
That's so fun, but clearly if they're coming to you, then you did a lot right in order to get the buzz out there. So how did you start the marketing journey with Chilled Vino?

Caroline (17:29.771)
I got it all wrong.

Caroline (17:34.399)
No, truthfully, I really did. Because part of the outsourcing fees too, I hired a marketing agency. And I was under the impression that I needed to really invest in retainer fees with them and then also invest in ad spend at that early of the stage, which I think looking back on it was a mistake. The agency was fantastic, working there was fantastic. It's just very expensive from a startup standpoint.

So looking back, I should have done organic daily posting on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. I think TikTok was just taking, taking up at that point. But instead I spent and wasted a lot of money on ads.

Megan Tobler (18:21.314)
Hey, but like we were talking about earlier, you took action. And I think that you learn along the way and hopefully you've been able to recuperate those costs at this point. Um, and then some hopefully, um, but I do think that we can't get it right from the get go early on, but again, it's taking about, it's taking that action. Um, and obviously that action worked because people were reaching out to you. Um, but I think that's a lesson for everyone that you don't have to invest a bunch of dollars.

at the very beginning to get started, you actually can even outsource, use Upwork if you don't really want to invest in social media yourself, or if you don't wanna do the social yourself, go to Upwork or Fiverr or something like that to be able to outsource that for a relatively low cost.

Caroline (19:07.499)
Yeah, and you're right. And I could have done it myself with the organic marketing, or I could have hired an individual rather than working with a full firm to help with and have an hourly call so then a monthly retainer. But at the time, again, I had my corporate job and I was like, okay, I'll outsource it, it's fine. But looking back, I should have taken a different path.

Megan Tobler (19:26.09)
Hey, but you did it. I think that's great. Now, obviously sales are booming. You mentioned it's a seasonal thing, which makes sense considering the types of year, the seasons of the year that people are drinking cold wine, let's say it that way. But you had mentioned you're alluded to this corporate job multiple times here.

But right before we hit record, you told me that you're actually no longer in corporate, which I am so excited to hear. So tell us a little bit about that journey and when you decided to really hang up the corporate medals and so on and so forth.

Caroline (20:05.411)
So I started recruiting in 2010, fast forward.

14 years later, when I started in 2010, I was placing entry-level professionals, hourly professionals, temporary employees, fast forward 14 years, and I'm working in the C-suite space. And I'm working some really big roles, global roles, very high visibility executive roles with Fortune 500 companies, private equity, I mean, all types of industries, you name it. And I kind of get to the point where I was like, it doesn't get any higher than this.

not anymore I can learn about how to find someone with these skills. And I went to our executive team, I had a review, and I just was totally honest with them and said, you know, I can stay here and keep doing the same thing different day, but it's not fulfilling me personally, and I also want to continue learning and growing. And so we did spend a couple months trying to figure out where, what I was going to do. And for the record, my corporate job,

was fantastic. They knew all about Shield Vino and my side business and they let me do my entrepreneurial thing, you know, in addition to my full-time corporate role. And so I'm very thankful for that. And I just got to a point.

in early 2024 and was like, okay, I'm going to take the gifts that I've been blessed with and I want to share them with others. And so I want to make it my mission to share everything I've learned with recruiting and hiring top talent. And I want to teach in-house talent acquisition HR teams and then also female entrepreneurs exactly how to hire top talent.

Megan Tobler (21:46.702)
So what was kind of the light bulb moment that you had that you decided that you were going to say goodbye to everything you had known in corporate and really utilize those skills to be able to help female founders and these companies in HR.

Caroline (22:05.791)
I just got to a point in the grind where I just couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't get on the phone with a client and do another search. I just knew my heart wasn't in it anymore and so it wasn't fair to my corporate employer and it wasn't fair to me to continue just going through the motions and it took again months to get to that point but and I was in a spot with Sheldvino and the podcast and everything going on where I

could make the pivot to do that. And I'm thankful for that too, which is another reason that if you've got a corporate job, if your listeners have a corporate job and are teetering about starting something on your own or a side hustle, I would highly encourage you to do it. Because you never know what can happen. I mean, your life can be totally different one year, two year, three years out if you continue building that up.

Megan Tobler (22:49.518)
Definitely, and I think sometimes to have a side hustle while you're working your corporate job gives you that sense of security because we were talking about earlier how sometimes it takes money to make money. So utilizing your corporate job as an investment into your side project as you're building that up kind of takes off some of the pressure. So you don't have to make any drastic decisions right away. You can really...

I know you said you think quickly here. So I mean, if you want to think quickly, great. But if sometimes you want to like think it through a little bit, like whatever to each their own, I think that helps. But obviously you're no longer in corporate. So how did you prepare and really how did you prepare to get how to hire top talent started or did you?

Caroline (23:37.959)
I did, I thought about it a long time about exactly the gifts and the mission that I wanted to give back and share with others. And so I invested in master classes and digital courses. So I figured out not on my own, I learned from the professionals exactly how to do it from the tech standpoint, exactly how to set up a sales page, landing page, you know, a newsletter, exactly how to position your messaging and timing and all of that too. And so I'm still, I'm still figuring it all out. I don't have it all figured out at all.

In the beginning stages, but I invested in myself. And I think you can't go wrong when you invest with yourself.

Megan Tobler (24:17.518)
Now, how did you decide on what different resources to invest in first?

Caroline (24:25.363)
I always am reading. I read personal and professional development books every single morning. I listen to podcasts all the time. Obviously I have a podcast too, Feminine Founder.

But on top of that, the digital courses and the people that I've invested in to actually hand, you know, mentor me as in a mastermind program, so the people who've done exactly what I want to do. And so I only hire professionals who are where I want to be so I can continue to learn and grow from them. And it just honestly was a chemistry thing. Like who did I gravitate towards? You know, what did I like that they were doing? And it was more of a feeling thing inside. And I know sometimes you can't, shouldn't make decisions monetarily on how you feel. but that's truly how I decided on who to follow.

Megan Tobler (25:12.302)
And I think that goes back to your recruiting efforts and your recruiting career here as well as your, it sounds like you're really good at narrowing down who you need, like your niche essentially, like who the people that you're going after essentially for like the chilled vino, but then also the people that you're striving to be like and to emulate your career around. Is that kind of a fair assumption here as well?

Caroline (25:39.627)
Yeah, that's spot on. It's more of an intuition thing for me, but the intuition I know within two minutes, no matter if it's a decision on who to hire, who I'm placing, you know, who I want to work with as a mentor. It's a two minute decision.

Megan Tobler (25:55.054)
Let's talk about that. Cause I think that a female intuition is very powerful, but we often don't listen to it. So how are you actually tapping into that versus someone that's potentially not?

Caroline (26:09.223)
I'm really taking some time and not only monetarily investing in myself, but investing in myself from a self-care standpoint, exercising, eating, doing all those things, just taking care. Once you take care of yourself, you have more to give back to others. I'm reading a book right now by Jamie Kern Lima called Worthy. She talks about in her book the difference between being confident and the difference between feeling worthy.

And she does a great job breaking that down of we can have confidence, but we need to also be worthy. And I think, you know, I'm at a point in my life where I'm choosing me.

Megan Tobler (26:48.622)
so good and you said it perfectly. I'm at a point in my life where I'm choosing me. And I know Jamie's story here, let's just say it that way. I know it's a really fascinating one where she was working in a restaurant as she was building out her makeup line and just getting that there was someone that she went to that didn't think that she had the right look to be the face of her brand.

And she just kept going anyways, because she knew that she was worthy and she believed in this mission. And she and her husband completely transformed their lives. So highly recommend following her story as well here, because it is the definition of like a self-starter. But this has been an absolutely incredible conversation here. Obviously, you have started the...

been out of your corporate job for a month now and you are working with full time into how to hire top talent. You're doing the podcast and obviously we have chilled vino. So what's kind of in the future for how to hire a top talent now that you're fully in the weeds here?

Caroline (28:02.015)
My plan is to offer corporate trainings, one-on-one programs with me to work directly with me, and then I'm also going to offer group coaching opportunities or membership opportunities. I'm deciding between the two of those right now. And so if you want to learn more, you can sign up for my newsletter at www. That's a mouthful. And you can sign up my, my list there and get weekly emails from me on what I've got going on.

Megan Tobler (28:30.51)
And I know that you're really active on LinkedIn as well. So you're also someone that I really like to follow and to be able to stay off top of mind with there. Now that you're officially a month into this full time, and obviously you've been doing Chilled Vino for a couple of years now and you have the podcast, what's kind of been some of the challenges that you faced or the biggest challenge that you faced so far? And then on the flip side, what's been kind of the biggest...reward.

Caroline (29:03.315)
My biggest reward has been the podcast. And here's why. I looked at my husband about a year ago and said, I'm gonna start a podcast. He was like, what? Go for it. And I knew nothing about it. I knew nothing about the editing, the music, the guesting, having guests come on the show. I didn't know anything about any of it. And so I just went down a rabbit hole and to look into blogs, watch YouTube videos, figured out what the best mic was.

I should start with and I just started learning and continued learning and you know it's one of those things you're scared at first like I put out an episode February 8th of 2023. I didn't put on another episode for another month and I was just imposter syndrome was setting in like who are you are you podcast host you know but I had always interviewed professionally for a living and so I was like well the only difference now is I'm pressing record

So I started flexing that confidence muscle, that worthy muscle, and got into rhythm every two weeks. And then in August of last year, I decided to ramp it up to one week. But the most amazing thing about it, it was very challenging. I mean, my husband came home, we're coming from work, and I would be like.

I cannot talk, I'm about to throw this computer out the window because I was editing hell and I could not figure out how to get out of it. And I didn't want to outsource it, even though I talked about outsourcing earlier. I really wanted to learn it because I knew this was mine, my voice. I wanted to learn how to do it.

So it took me three hours then takes me less than 30 minutes now. So, but I've gotten the opportunity to really meet with so many amazing women that I would have never met otherwise. And I am so grateful for that and the LinkedIn platform is the way that I connect with most of them, which again never would have happened a year ago and I'm so grateful.

Megan Tobler (30:57.166)
And that's how you and I met. So I will say that when someone asks me on the flip side, when I'm in your position here and someone's interviewing me, like, what's the biggest thing, the most rewarding thing? I say the exact same thing. It always comes down to the amount of incredible women that I've been able to meet because of this platform. And there's nothing like it.

Caroline (31:18.755)
There's nothing like it and also I would be encouraging to any of your listeners to start getting active on LinkedIn. LinkedIn just crossed the 1 billion user mark and they have 130 million active users. And less than 1% of people actually create and post content on LinkedIn, which means a huge opportunity for visibility there.

Megan Tobler (31:36.91)
Yeah, completely agree. I know Instagram and TikTok and X are where everyone thinks that they're gonna have a lot of success, but I've found the most successful with LinkedIn personally. So, but that also comes from the corporate experience.

Caroline (31:52.423)
Yeah, the quality of the connection is where it's at on LinkedIn. And also, I think there's a lot of LinkedIn lurkers that they just are scared to post and don't want to post because of Sally from high school or an ex boss or whatever. But if you don't want them to see your stuff, just go and connect from them. It's not a big deal and start posting.

Megan Tobler (32:09.07)
Exactly, I completely agree. Now, on the flip side of the reward, what have been the biggest challenges that you face that other people could potentially learn from here?

Caroline (32:18.755)
Podcasting. Honestly, because all of the, you know, someone asked me one time, they said, your podcast guest, isn't that a lot of work? And they said it like it was a condescending thing. And at the time it was consuming hours of my time because I didn't know how to edit, I didn't know how to do tech, I didn't know how to upload, and I didn't know how to do anything. And so it was a hard, a hard pivot for me to learn, but again, so rewarding. So, you just gotta stick with it.

Megan Tobler (32:48.366)
There's such a good, that's the key I think is being able to stick with it because anything that you do at the very beginning is gonna be hard, but it does become so rewarding when you figure it out and it starts to just become a well-oiled machine. And you get to the point where you're able to connect with all of these people. But your experiences, while they may seem different, while obviously you're in recruiting, you're in podcasting and you're in the wine business, they might all from...

from a thousand foot view seem a little bit different, but there's so many similarities and intersections here where you've been able to bring in your 14 year experience within the corporate world and being able to utilize all of those different skill sets to be able to create some really beautiful things for yourself and for others here. So I think that's just a really great testament to.

what you've done and to what can happen if you just listen to that intuition like you're talking about and knowing that you're feeling worthy. So I know you mentioned where other people could find you, but I always like to ask at the end of all of my episodes, you've shared a ton of knowledge today, but if there's just one piece of advice that you can leave our listeners with today, what would you narrow it down to?

Caroline (34:11.123)
LinkedIn is the best place to find me. If you want to find me on Instagram, it's Cpennington, P-E- But LinkedIn is the best place. Feel free to connect with me, follow me, send me a DM, I love to connect.

Megan Tobler (34:27.342)
Wonderful, and I think it might have cut out. But if, so if someone wanted to, or I typically, let me back it up a little bit. I typically end the episodes with just sharing one little piece of advice that you can leave people with today. If you had to narrow it down to one thing, what would you share for a female entrepreneur or someone that's aspiring to be one?

Caroline (34:47.959)
Just take the first step. Just do the little things, even if it might seem very small. Go buy the domain, go on Google domains and buy it. And you will get momentum and it will build like a snowball. You just have to stick, you have to stay in it. And if you don't stay in it, it's gonna go away, but it's gonna be worth it if you stay in it.

Megan Tobler (35:09.07)
I completely agree, just take the first step. Well, Caroline, thank you so much for dropping so much knowledge today and sharing your story. I know that this has been a conversation that is going to impact a lot of people. So thank you again.

Caroline (35:22.359)
Thank you so much for having me.